Comments on: Why We’re Not Going To Mars http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/why-were-not-going-to-mars/ Fri, 03 Aug 2018 06:04:06 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=4.9.8 By: Buzz Moons Lunar Return | Spudis Lunar Resources Blog http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/why-were-not-going-to-mars/#comment-3423 Mon, 28 Jul 2014 15:00:57 +0000 http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/?p=878#comment-3423 […] a human into space nor have they sent a payload beyond geosynchronous orbit. Follett repeats the fallacy that we are in a better technological position to go to Mars now than we were 50 years ago to go to the Moon, again fundamentally misunderstanding […]

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By: billgamesh http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/why-were-not-going-to-mars/#comment-3305 Mon, 14 Jul 2014 08:16:03 +0000 http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/?p=878#comment-3305 “This is not the same country that sent people to the Moon in less than a decade.”

One of the most overlooked fortuitous circumstances that favored Apollo was a failed replacement for the U-2 spy plane.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_CL-400_Suntan

This plane was canceled in 1958 but the infrastructure to manufacture, store, and transfer the liquid hydrogen fuel contributed to adoption for Apollo. Another fortunate success was the F-1 engine which took a couple years to troubleshoot out the combustion instability problems. One of the better books on the space race describes the biggest engineering problem as the liquid hydrogen second stage. Our ability to friction stir weld rocket stages is extremely advanced compared to the 60s.

I think we have some assets left in our submarine construction industry. This has always been a major failure by not using our shipyards for construction of monolithic SRBs. The prototype firing and studies done on 260 inch and 325 inch SRB’s reveal this failure to double or more the lift-off thrust of our launch vehicles as the stop light ending the space age.

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By: billgamesh http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/why-were-not-going-to-mars/#comment-3236 Wed, 02 Jul 2014 22:58:45 +0000 http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/?p=878#comment-3236 “-100,000 tanks, almost 200,000 fighter and heavy bomber aircraft, 160 aircraft carriers, 350 destroyers, and over 200 submarines.

The Sherman tank never had a powerful enough gun. It was a pretty horrible mistake to make with a tank and Ike was angry when he found out.

Bombers did not end the war like everyone thought they would and submarines never had a torpedo in world war two that was more likely to hit than miss. If Germany or Japan had an acoustic, wire-guided, or other form of precision torpedo guidance system then the submarine could possibly have won the war for them. I will believe anything after 911. And after all, submarines were the reason the money was spent on the spruce goose.

I was impressed by a stat I came across the other day;

Soyuz-U holds the world record of highest launch rate in a year in 1979 with 47 flights http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soyuz-U

In the 70’s the Soviets were actually flying close to fifty times a year. Launching an HLV once a week is really the only way human beings are going to get any infrastructure going in a timely way.

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By: billgamesh http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/why-were-not-going-to-mars/#comment-3208 Fri, 27 Jun 2014 03:44:31 +0000 http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/?p=878#comment-3208 After thinking about this for a couple days, some points of interest are taking form when I considering some of the mechanisms incorporated into the “horizon goal path way.” Square one is radiation and the wet workshop partially filled with hundreds of tons of lunar water is the place where human beings can go without fear of any solar events or cosmic radiation effects. So the first item is the SLS wet workshop:

1. Can a large enough stage be placed in lunar orbit for easy conversion into a fully shielded spaceship compartment?

The second requirement is the magical mystery machine that everyone is waiting for; a lunar drone that can land on top of ice deposits and make water and rocket fuel. These drones will refuel themselves and continue to fly between the surface and lunar orbit carrying water shielding for long careers until finally they are lost through attrition hopefully some decades in the future. So the second item is the robot:

2. Can a lunar drone processing surface ice have a useful life as a robotic fuel tanker?

The last step for a successful space program is simply to choose a long term goal of GEO space stations to begin the migration of human beings into space. These pseudo-space ships can use the lunar drones to boost themselves between GEO and lunar orbit but nowhere else. They can certainly replace the existing satellite junkyard with a vastly superior network. In this model, there are no human operations on the surface of the Moon. Space stations are constructed out of wet workshops and use drones to fill the stations and push them around to different locations. But as noted, their mobility will necessarily be limited to slipping between GEO and lunar orbit. The third item that becomes required for a planetary protection mission is a nuclear engine.

3. Is there a practical nuclear propulsion system for massively shielded spinning spaceships?

Once all the slots are filled in GEO and all the space junk is cleaned up then the time will come to build engines. There may be a way to build a large engine out of sections but it would take…..I have no idea how many missions. Perhaps 30, maybe three years of a well-funded flight schedule. There are methods for building extremely small and energetic devices like neutron bombs that may be superior sources of energy in the smallest practical nuclear fission driven design.

In this incremental architecture, the SLS missions just keep flying, year after year. The space stations will slowly move into GEO orbit and after all the slots are filled the SLS missions will start deliver sections of pulse engine. At some point the spaceships will start flying and refueling from icy bodies in the outer solar system. These will be long missions of several years depending on how efficient the pulse system is.

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By: Paul Spudis http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/why-were-not-going-to-mars/#comment-3192 Tue, 24 Jun 2014 21:26:53 +0000 http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/?p=878#comment-3192 A re-write of history and incorrect. No Presidential budget ever survives intact — the final product is always a negotiation between the Executive and the Congress. Congress wrote the 2010 NASA Authorization, which directed NASA to prepare for human missions throughout cislunar space, including the lunar surface (preserving at least the middle part of the VSE). They wrote the specs for the SLS launch vehicle because NASA repeatedly ignored their continued requests for an HLV system development plan. It is NASA and the administration that “cancelled” the VSE by ignoring Congressional direction and devising this moronic asteroid capture plan (ARM), part of the administration’s shell game to convince people that we still have a human space program.

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By: Vladislaw http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/why-were-not-going-to-mars/#comment-3190 Tue, 24 Jun 2014 18:18:38 +0000 http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/?p=878#comment-3190 The executive branch submits a non binding budget to congress. Congress determines what NASA does. This congress has not did anything the executive branch wanted done with NASA in the 2010 budget. They tossed it out. Just like congress tossed out the VSE and funding what they wanted instead.

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By: Mark R. Whittington http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/why-were-not-going-to-mars/#comment-3179 Mon, 23 Jun 2014 20:51:54 +0000 http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/?p=878#comment-3179 Stark, caustic, and unfortunately largely true. But I see things as cyclical and not as an inexorable decline. I think we may be emerging from our torpor and will find that strength that took us to the moon by and by.

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By: Marcel Williams http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/why-were-not-going-to-mars/#comment-3177 Mon, 23 Jun 2014 19:44:43 +0000 http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/?p=878#comment-3177 The last 40 years have been glory years for NASA’s unmanned space program– even though scientist associated with NASA’s unmanned space program still complain that they are being seriously underfunded.

Marcel

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By: Michael Wright http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/why-were-not-going-to-mars/#comment-3176 Mon, 23 Jun 2014 16:17:48 +0000 http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/?p=878#comment-3176 >As Dad likes to joke, “We had Ace Hardware just around the corner,
>and they (the Soviets) did not.”

For us whining on the forums this is obvious but for those on top of the food chain who make the key decisions of our space program seem to not get this. Unless it is all about priorities. Though we’ve regressed in manned spaceflight capability, and getting new manned aircraft i.e. F35 takes decades, there have been huge advances in unmanned spacecraft (i.e. Mars rovers, Kepler, IRIS, etc) and UAVs. Watching 60 Minutes last night talking about UAVs, I was thinking that’s the priority and the future whether you or I like it or not.

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By: Marcel Williams http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/why-were-not-going-to-mars/#comment-3161 Sat, 21 Jun 2014 23:33:37 +0000 http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/?p=878#comment-3161 I highly recommend listening to what Dr. Spudis had to say on this topic on the Space Show. It was simply excellent science radio that shouldn’t be missed!

http://archive.thespaceshow.com/shows/2266-BWB-2014-06-20.mp3

Marcel

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