Comments on: Space: To Settle or to Sail? http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/space-to-settle-or-to-sail/ Fri, 03 Aug 2018 06:04:06 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=4.9.8 By: Buzz Moons Lunar Return | Spudis Lunar Resources Blog http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/space-to-settle-or-to-sail/#comment-3422 Mon, 28 Jul 2014 14:58:24 +0000 http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/?p=145#comment-3422 […] is simply no compelling need for the national government to “settle space.” That said, the government could undertake a scientific and engineering research program to understand how humans could access and remain at distant localities in space for increasing […]

]]>
By: Robert Clark http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/space-to-settle-or-to-sail/#comment-231 Sat, 08 Dec 2012 16:33:24 +0000 http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/?p=145#comment-231 Nice article as usual. The recent reports that NASA needs a focus on human “spacefaring” might give impetus to this idea of cislunar exploration. Those reports noted that the engineers at the NASA centers are not enthusiastic about the asteroid exploration idea, nor is the White House interested in the space station at Lagrange point idea. And it remains a continuing problem the SLS is regarded by many as a “rocket to nowhere”.
The unveiling this week of a commercial plan to return to the Moon may also give support to the idea of cislunar exploration. Quite important is that their plan, by going small can be done at 1/10th the cost of Apollo or of Constellation. However, even more important is that following a commercial approach even this estimate is probably overinflated. SpaceX has shown that development costs for both launchers and space capsules can be cut by a factor of 5 to 10 by following a commercial approach to development. This suggests a (small) return to the Moon plan could be done for development costs in the few hundred million dollars range(!)
Note that “going small” would also work for the SLS, to enable much reduced costs for a SLS launched lunar mission. Then this would supply an immediate mission for the SLS: to return us to the Moon, at much reduced cost and in less than a decade.
So this is what NASA should be supporting. Note as well by returning to the Moon, this time to stay, we will also be able to set up lunar propellant stations that would make easier flights to asteroids and to Mars. Such propellant stations should also be a focus of the commercial return to the Moon plans. The largest cost of BEO flights is just the cost of getting the propellant to LEO. Then propellant stations on the Moon, because they can then send the propellant so much more cheaply to LEO, would enable the reduction of the commercial flight costs to the Moon greatly.
So this is a plan that the White House, the NASA centers, the supporters of the SLS and the supporters of the commercial space could all support.

Bob Clark

]]>
By: gbaikie http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/space-to-settle-or-to-sail/#comment-230 Fri, 07 Dec 2012 07:05:20 +0000 http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/?p=145#comment-230 osmiclog.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/12/06/15731458-golden-spike-space-venture-wants-to-fly-you-to-the-moon-for-14-billion?lite
Linked from http://www.transterrestrial.com/

“That architecture could be put in place for $7 billion to $8 billion, Stern said. “This is a breakthrough cost,” he said. In addition to the $1.4 billion for each two-person expedition, Golden Spike would derive revenue from media ventures associated with each moonshot, Stern said.”

And:
“Are Golden Spike’s assumptions about the demand for lunar missions correct, even if the price point is in its estimated range of $1.4 billion and up? Stern said Golden Spike was in contact with one individual who might be able to pull together a moonshot deal, but the prime market for missions would be national space agencies. “We’ve already had conversations with some national space agencies, and they’ve expressed their interest,” he said. Stern declined to name names, but said that the agencies were based in Europe and Asia. ”

This could a plan to exploring the Moon.
1.4 billion for 2 crew. Could countries like Canada UK, Saudi, have a instant lunar program?
Could encourage more lunar robotic mission?

]]>
By: Joe http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/space-to-settle-or-to-sail/#comment-229 Thu, 06 Dec 2012 19:05:47 +0000 http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/?p=145#comment-229 Ok, I am getting here a little late; but I will take a shot at the whole development vs. settlement debate.

I would vote for development for exactly the reasons Paul outlined and because a successful development program would inevitably lead to settlement. As development progressed the number of personnel required at various locations would strain even more advanced Earth surface to LEO transportation systems. That would lead to the organizations running the development to wish to increase the Tours of Duty for the individuals staying at the various in-space locations. These people (unlike past settlers) are going to be well trained in valuable skills; the way to get them to do that will be to make the various habitats (lunar surface/orbital) more comfortable. As that process proceeds the habitats will eventually become comfortable enough that some significant percentage of the inhabitants will choose to stay. You then get settlements without ever declaring them a goal.

As to any debate about orbital vs. surface settlements I am a proponent of orbital settlements, but it is way too early to argue those points. It is akin to a couple of trappers in a lean-to on Manhattan Island debating what the street layouts should be in New York City in one hundred years (except we haven’t even built the lean-to yet). If you are an engineer (and I am) it is a lot of fun, but the actual .decisions of that detail will be made later when the development program has progressed further.

]]>
By: gbaikie http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/space-to-settle-or-to-sail/#comment-228 Thu, 06 Dec 2012 11:32:46 +0000 http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/?p=145#comment-228 “I agree that space settlement should not be added to the NASA charter. NASA already has too much focus on human spaceflight for no compelling reason, let’s not add more wood to that fire.

That being said, “exploration” seems to me to be clearly inadequate to describe the task of setting up a space navy. Webber would have better argued for inclusion of “cis-lunar development” and “space infrastructure development” and similar terms in the NASA charter and de-emphasis of the word “exploration”. ”

The problem with NASA is it has long lists of what it is doing. And NASA doesn’t need to add settlements to the lists of things it’s not going to do.
The idea of NASA settlement is misuse of the word settlement.

Instead NASA should focus on doing exploration.
And one of reason NASA should exploring is so in the future there will be settlements in space, but not NASA settlements in space.
And if NASA explores the Moon with the intention of finding minable water deposits- then if they are truly minable then they will be commerically mined. Just like whenever one find a area which is minable, one gets that area mined. And if lunar water is being mine and rocket fuel is being made and sold, then if Navy needs rocket fuel made in space, it can then buy as much as it needs.
So lunar exploration can lead to navy presence in space, if the generals, congress, and president think it is necessary.

]]>
By: Stan Clark http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/space-to-settle-or-to-sail/#comment-227 Wed, 05 Dec 2012 23:34:20 +0000 http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/?p=145#comment-227 I don’t disagree with you about the ‘navy’ but I should point out that ‘navies’ were created to protect merchant fleet. Today’s merchant fleets are our geosynchronous satellites. (This fleet would be better served if they were serviceable rather than thrown away.) As merchant fleets spread out and the age of steam came into being the merchant fleets started coaling stations in conjunction with the government ‘navies’ thus extending their range to newer markets. I see not difference in the way that a space based economy would differ from this basic sea going economical model.

]]>
By: DougSpace http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/space-to-settle-or-to-sail/#comment-226 Wed, 05 Dec 2012 23:12:27 +0000 http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/?p=145#comment-226 Yes, makes sense.

]]>
By: Paul Spudis http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/space-to-settle-or-to-sail/#comment-225 Wed, 05 Dec 2012 20:28:03 +0000 http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/?p=145#comment-225 But would such a complex naturally be viewed as strictly within the commercial domain? So I don’t know if it could be used as a rationale for the development of a cis-lunar transportation infrastructure funded largely or exclusively by the government.

I am not proposing that government build it — I am using it as an example of something whose construction would become possible if a cislunar transportation system based on the use of lunar resources were built. I contend that creating such a transportation system is an appropriate governmental activity, one which provides benefits to both government and the commercial sector.

]]>
By: DougSpace http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/space-to-settle-or-to-sail/#comment-224 Wed, 05 Dec 2012 17:43:41 +0000 http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/?p=145#comment-224 “ISS-sized communications complex in GEO, broadcasting 5000 channels of high-definition television to their smartphones and iPads”

The public would personally benefit from this “ISS” far more than any theoretical benefit to them from the current ISS. Such a specific tangible object is easier to understand and get enthused about than a phrase about strategic and national assets in cis-lunar space. But would such a complex naturally be viewed as strictly within the commercial domain? So I don’t know if it could be used as a rationale for the development of a cis-lunar transportation infrastructure funded largely or exclusively by the government.

]]>
By: Paul Spudis http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/space-to-settle-or-to-sail/#comment-223 Wed, 05 Dec 2012 17:40:26 +0000 http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/?p=145#comment-223 Can you (or have you) specified what the likely value of lunar propellant would be to the military?

At a minimum, the same as any other satellite user (maintenance, construction of large aperture, distributed space systems, etc.) But in addition (and possibly more importantly), they would have special needs in the areas of asset protection and power projection. Disabling and denial of space assets is the first priority of an adversary in wartime. The military needs to anticipate this kind of activity and take appropriate counter-measures. The availability of a cislunar transportation system would be an enormous deterrent to aggressive actions in space.

]]>