Comments on: Polar “Lava Tubes” http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/polar-lava-tubes/ Fri, 03 Aug 2018 06:04:06 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=4.9.8 By: nova9 http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/polar-lava-tubes/#comment-6439 Fri, 19 Jan 2018 03:27:34 +0000 http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/?p=1759#comment-6439 Once polar outpost are fully established (I assume by multiple nations and corporations), they will inherently produce a valuable commodity in the form of biowaste. This valuable hydrocarbon resource could be easily exported by electric vehicles to lunar outpost at non polar sites on the lunar surface.

I assume that non polar sites will be focused on the extraction of oxygen from lunar regolith using both solar and nuclear power.

The electric power used for the plasma arc pyrolysis of biowaste produces more than six times as much electric power in the form of syngas (hydrogen and carbon monoxide) as is put into it.

The combustion of syngas with oxygen to produce electric power during the lunar night would, of course, produce water and carbon dioxide as a byproduct.

Marcel

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By: Gary Church http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/polar-lava-tubes/#comment-6438 Fri, 19 Jan 2018 00:08:26 +0000 http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/?p=1759#comment-6438 Well, unlike on Earth, the reactor can pretty much sit with no shielding in the bottom of a crater and be an arrangement of fissionable material and moderators and produce electricity and heat in a completely different manner than a reactor on Earth. When the lunar night begins the reactor would heat up and when it ends it would shut down in a day/night cycle that may work fine while such a scheme is impossible on Earth.

The components for such a reactor design might very well be transportable with a lander like the Blue Moon in several loads. Landed in the crater and then moved with a bobcat and stacked together.

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By: Joe http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/polar-lava-tubes/#comment-6437 Thu, 18 Jan 2018 18:36:11 +0000 http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/?p=1759#comment-6437 “However, needing megawatts of power to do resources extraction like this, in my opinion, cannot possibly have a viable cost/benefits ratio.”

If I might suggest, the immediate goal should be utilization of the water at the lunar poles and beginning to utilize other lunar resources for structures (etc.).

There will be plenty of time later to decide the proper course of expansion to other lunar regions (with more data upon which to make informed decisions) at that point.

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By: J Fincannon http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/polar-lava-tubes/#comment-6436 Thu, 18 Jan 2018 18:13:03 +0000 http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/?p=1759#comment-6436 Sorry that I mis-inferred that you were implying this.

However, needing megawatts of power to do resources extraction like this, in my opinion, cannot possibly have a viable cost/benefits ratio.

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By: Paul Spudis http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/polar-lava-tubes/#comment-6435 Thu, 18 Jan 2018 17:47:14 +0000 http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/?p=1759#comment-6435 In any event, as you imply, it makes no sense to extract hydrogen from dry regolith

I didn’t say that and don’t believe it. You simply require much more power to do it.

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By: J Fincannon http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/polar-lava-tubes/#comment-6434 Thu, 18 Jan 2018 15:53:02 +0000 http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/?p=1759#comment-6434 >Because 1) you have to survive the 14-days of continuous lunar nighttime; …

But doesn’t that only pertain to a solar based power system? The day/night cycle only affects the reactor radiator sink temperature (thus power production) slightly and in the opposite direction anyway.

In any event, as you imply, it makes no sense to extract hydrogen from dry regolith. Yet, outposts at non-polar sites might still have valid uses for other resource extraction/science.

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By: Paul Spudis http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/polar-lava-tubes/#comment-6433 Thu, 18 Jan 2018 15:30:54 +0000 http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/?p=1759#comment-6433 Is there another paper you wrote that updates these values?

No. I assumed that we would continue to expand power generation as the outpost grows. There’s no significant qualitative difference between 125 and 200 kW — you can still do it all with steerable solar arrays.

I don’t understand why you need a 1-10 megawatt reactor.

Because 1) you have to survive the 14-days of continuous lunar nighttime; and 2) it requires at least 1-2 orders of magnitude more power to extract implanted solar wind hydrogen from “dry” regolith than it does to melt and collect the water in ice-laden polar regolith.

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By: J Fincannon http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/polar-lava-tubes/#comment-6432 Thu, 18 Jan 2018 15:21:15 +0000 http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/?p=1759#comment-6432 In your SPACE 2016 paper, I could find the 200 kW for your LLO and LEO orbital hab-depots, but it lists only a total of 125 kW for the polar outpost (75 kW for the surface “power plant” and 50 kW from the “mobile power package”). Is there another paper you wrote that updates these values?

I don’t understand why you need a 1-10 megawatt reactor. If your outpost can operate with 200 kW solar power (near continuous during the polar day time), then assuming a nuclear system providing 10 kW each, you need 20. Developers/funders do not want to build giant nuclear reactors due to high costs, so, while the smaller reactors may not be mass optimized, they meet other programmatic needs. The reactor based power level/outpost is then site independent. Does it take a lot more power to acquire water/ice elsewhere on the Moon? Do you have a paper documenting this analysis?

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By: Paul Spudis http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/polar-lava-tubes/#comment-6431 Thu, 18 Jan 2018 06:20:14 +0000 http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/?p=1759#comment-6431 “The Kilopower reactor could produce 1-10 kilowatts of electrical power, continuously for ten years or more.”

Our lunar resources outpost architecture deploys 200 kW of solar electrical power. To survive at mid-latitudes, the need is for a 1-10 megaWatt-class reactor. This reactor is too small by 3 orders of magnitude.

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By: Gary Church http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/polar-lava-tubes/#comment-6430 Thu, 18 Jan 2018 00:14:26 +0000 http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/?p=1759#comment-6430 “It is very difficult to survive the 14-day lunar night without a reliable source of electrical power. The best way to address this problem is to deploy a nuclear reactor, which can generate power continuously, but such a reactor does not now exist and we are unlikely to develop one of sufficient size any time within the next couple of decades.”

http://www.world-nuclear-news.org/ON-NASA-to-test-prototype-Kilopower-reactor-1711174.html

“The Kilopower reactor could produce 1-10 kilowatts of electrical power, continuously for ten years or more.”

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