Comments on: Organizational Whiplash: Why NASA Needs A Change in Direction http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/organizational-whiplash-why-nasa-needs-a-change-in-direction/ Fri, 03 Aug 2018 06:04:06 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=4.9.8 By: billgamesh http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/organizational-whiplash-why-nasa-needs-a-change-in-direction/#comment-5317 Sat, 23 Apr 2016 13:31:34 +0000 http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/?p=1377#comment-5317 “It looks like the whole thing has to crash and burn, to a crisp, to be resurrected.”

No. The best model I know of concerning this is GM. The company knew they were headed for bankruptcy and instituted reforms- basically copying the TQM techniques Deming taught the Japanese back in the 1950’s. Unfortunately GM had an institutional creature called the plant manager that for various reasons was very difficult to simply fire and many of these fought the reforms tooth and nail. The plant manager problem was finally solved and quality and efficiency went through the roof – but it was too late to keep the company from going into bankruptcy.

Many of the same characteristics as NASA. The space agency problem is not process, it is destination. LEO and Mars are dead ends that go nowhere.

]]>
By: billgamesh http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/organizational-whiplash-why-nasa-needs-a-change-in-direction/#comment-5316 Sat, 23 Apr 2016 13:19:04 +0000 http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/?p=1377#comment-5316 “-both projects need something to do and someplace to go. Given their origins as vehicles designed to enable human flights within cislunar space, this is the logical arena in which to operate. But in this case, the “where” leaves begging the question of the “what?” Besides the ARM, it has been proposed to develop a cislunar “habitat” to be deployed somewhere in the vicinity of the Moon. But what shall we do there?”

The wet workshop (Skylab was a “dry workshop) concept and robot lander concepts provide the answer to the “what?”

By abandoning the dead ends of LEO and Mars and redirecting that funding into a lunar return robot landers and empty upper stages can be placed in lunar polar “frozen” orbits. The landers, whose engines can also be used to insert the stages into orbit, can be used to shuttle water and volatiles from the ice deposits to orbit. The SLS can fly 6 to 8 times a year for the same cost as the shuttle program.

The workshops, partially filled with hundreds and eventually thousands of tons of water, attached to each other with tether systems, would provide a one gravity near sea level radiation environment. With no exposure or debilitation concerns these true space stations would provide sanctuaries Beyond Earth Orbit where the real work of building a cislunar infrastructure can begin.

]]>
By: billgamesh http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/organizational-whiplash-why-nasa-needs-a-change-in-direction/#comment-5314 Fri, 22 Apr 2016 22:21:49 +0000 http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/?p=1377#comment-5314 “An ISP of 850-1000 is nothing to sneeze at.”

Considering the expense and that Pulse Propulsion typically starts at around an Isp of 10,000 it is not something to sneeze at, it is something to laugh at.
Not worth the trouble in any way shape or form.

“-the ISP to make SSTO feasible.”

No Nuclear Thermal Rocket is going to be launched in the Earth’s atmosphere. Ever.

“NTR’s can also be designed so that the exhaust isn’t radioactive.”

Stop making stuff up.

]]>
By: billgamesh http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/organizational-whiplash-why-nasa-needs-a-change-in-direction/#comment-5312 Fri, 22 Apr 2016 21:48:03 +0000 http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/?p=1377#comment-5312 More solar energy on the Moon is a problem?

“So that when you do go to Mars-”

Why go to Mars?

That is the question nobody has an answer to.

If you think it is an appropriate second home for humankind you need to stop guzzling the NewSpace kool-aid.

It is fairly obvious why we need to go to the Moon: the ice for radiation shielding and fuel to effect a cislunar infrastructure. But Mars?

Mars is a dead end.

]]>
By: Ben http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/organizational-whiplash-why-nasa-needs-a-change-in-direction/#comment-5311 Fri, 22 Apr 2016 20:11:01 +0000 http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/?p=1377#comment-5311 An ISP of only twice? (!) Rocket designers deal with the challenges of liquid Hydrogen vs Kerosene just to get a ~28% improvement in ISP. An ISP of 850-1000 is nothing to sneeze at.

A nuclear thermal rocket has the thrust to weight ratio to be able to launch something from earths surface, and the ISP to make SSTO feasible. Or a much smaller TSTO carry a respectable payload (whatever you consider that to be)

NTR’s can also be designed so that the exhaust isn’t radioactive. This is a bit harder to accomplish when your vehicle is dropping nuclear bombs out the back end.

For launch from places where you don’t care about adding some radiation, NPP is certainly impressive.

It would/will be very difficult politically to get NTR into use. But once the public has seen that NTR don’t seem to be causing the end of the world, perhaps NPP may become more palatable.

]]>
By: Stan Clark http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/organizational-whiplash-why-nasa-needs-a-change-in-direction/#comment-5310 Fri, 22 Apr 2016 19:36:35 +0000 http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/?p=1377#comment-5310 Anchoring a drill to the Moon to dig holes is much harder at only 1/6 G. Mars with 1/3G is easier. Vacuum on the Moon, Mars has an atmosphere, not much of one but still much more than the Moon. Solar radiation on the Moon is much higher than on Mars. Overcoming these problems will enable you to do the same on Mars. These are not the only problems to be overcome but building a Lunar base will tell you how to do it and what you need for it to succeed. So that when you do go to Mars most of the practical problem will be ironed out. Make me a crane that will work on the Moon and it will work on Mars with very few changes. And then there is the problem of Logistics, what do you need and how much, it would be nice to find out this before going the distance to Mars and then finding out you didn’t bring enough of something. I’m talking about the practical building of an occupied base.

]]>
By: Joe http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/organizational-whiplash-why-nasa-needs-a-change-in-direction/#comment-5307 Fri, 22 Apr 2016 18:16:48 +0000 http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/?p=1377#comment-5307 That’s an awful lot of what if’s.

Here are a few others possibilities:

(1) Shelby maintains his position.
(2) The new President (whoever they may be) selects a competent NASA Administrator.
(3) The coalition in Congress (that includes NON space state congressional members – got to love those all caps) holds together, as it has for about six years now.
(4) NASA starts using the SLS for lunar development.

Those are just as possible as yours and I like them better.

]]>
By: billgamesh http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/organizational-whiplash-why-nasa-needs-a-change-in-direction/#comment-5306 Fri, 22 Apr 2016 18:13:37 +0000 http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/?p=1377#comment-5306 The Nuclear Thermal Rocket was never a contender- it is hard enough keeping a chemical rocket from melting. With an Isp only twice that of a chemical rocket it was a pathetic attempt at utilizing a reaction over a million times more powerful.

Stan Ulam understood that such energy could not be contained by any physical material so he did what genius does and simply made it work without being contained. Freeman Dyson validated the concept with his research. A thousand nuclear detonations prove that it works.

After a half a century Nuclear Pulse Propulsion remains the only practical system. That it is still as politically unacceptable as it was fifty years ago does not change the reality.

]]>
By: Joe http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/organizational-whiplash-why-nasa-needs-a-change-in-direction/#comment-5305 Fri, 22 Apr 2016 18:08:47 +0000 http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/?p=1377#comment-5305 A NERVA upper stage would of given Saturn 5 the total delta-V to fly Apollo missions to the lunar poles, which Von Braun (among others) was interested.

Talk about and alternate future.

]]>
By: Vladislaw http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/organizational-whiplash-why-nasa-needs-a-change-in-direction/#comment-5304 Fri, 22 Apr 2016 17:57:10 +0000 http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/?p=1377#comment-5304 Unless Shelby sees the writing on the wall. Clinton gets elected, Garver becomes NASA Administrator. A panel is selected to look at SLS. NON space state congressional members refuse to fund SLS/Orion ani longer and it gets cancled. NASA starts buying lift to space on a fixed price from commercial providers.

]]>