Comments on: China, America and the Moon: Boldness and Abdication http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/china-america-and-the-moon-boldness-and-abdication/ Fri, 03 Aug 2018 06:04:06 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=4.9.8 By: China in Space | Spudis Lunar Resources Blog http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/china-america-and-the-moon-boldness-and-abdication/#comment-1888 Sat, 30 Nov 2013 23:23:09 +0000 http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/?p=590#comment-1888 […] to soft-land a rover and other experiments on the Moon’s surface.  Chang’E 3 is a relatively large vehicle, with a mass of over 3600 kg.  Details on the payload and its objectives are limited but by gleaning through the available […]

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By: Joe http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/china-america-and-the-moon-boldness-and-abdication/#comment-1828 Wed, 13 Nov 2013 20:30:09 +0000 http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/?p=590#comment-1828 Bigelow is different from most of the other “New Space” companies in two pertinent points:
(1) He proposes to produce habitat modules, not replace transportation capability.
(2) Unlike SpaceX, he has not tried to undermine existing systems and organizations; but to work with them. He picked up the work done in the 1990’s on the NASA Trans-Hab project and worked with the NASA people to further develop the concept.

Before Constellation Systems was cancelled he worked on an erectable/inflatable lunar surface habitat design that also had support within NASA.

His problem has always been that even he (and he is wealthy) does not have the resources to “go it alone” without government support. His orbital module work is now being propped up by NASA requesting a module to be attached to the ISS. I am not saying that is a bad thing, but it would be better if he fulfilled the delivery to the ISS of the orbital module before jumping into the currently (in this country anyway) non-existent lunar market.

If at that point he can produce (with his own resources) lunar surface habitats to be used with government supplied transportation (if that ever comes to pass in this country again) great, but there are a lot of “if’s” in that scenario.

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By: Leonidas http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/china-america-and-the-moon-boldness-and-abdication/#comment-1827 Wed, 13 Nov 2013 16:18:17 +0000 http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/?p=590#comment-1827 In more breaking news, Bigelow has released his NASA-commisioned report concerning future lunar exploration and public-private partnerships.

http://www.spacepolitics.com/2013/11/13/bigelow-to-press-us-government-on-lunar-property-rights/

His two main points are that a) A lunar COTS program should be established, much in the same way the COTS program for the ISS and b) Private companies should be allowed property rights on the Moon, if the private sector is going to advance its presence there. He also stated that he will apply to the FAA, for a review of the Outer Space Treaty concerning private property rights. He also states in his report that if NASA isn’t allowed to do this, ever-decreasing budgets will only allow for a modest human spaceflight program, leaving the stage open for China, to do what the US should be doing.

I’d much like to read your valuable insights on this Dr. Spudis. Do you think that public-private partnerships such as this, could jumbstart lunar exploitation and settlement?

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By: Robert Clark http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/china-america-and-the-moon-boldness-and-abdication/#comment-1826 Wed, 13 Nov 2013 16:10:34 +0000 http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/?p=590#comment-1826 Robert Bigelow discussed extending the COTS approach to lunar exploration in a news conference yesterday:

Bigelow Urges Lunar COTS Program, Wants Moon Property Rights Review.
Doug Messier
on November 12, 2013, at 1:17 pm
http://www.parabolicarc.com/2013/11/12/50647/

Today, Wednesday, Nov. 13, Charles Bolden will speak on the success of the commercial approach for LEO flights:

http://www.nasa.gov/nasatv

Only natural it should also be extended to BEO flights.

Bob Clark

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By: DougSpace http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/china-america-and-the-moon-boldness-and-abdication/#comment-1823 Tue, 12 Nov 2013 15:24:25 +0000 http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/?p=590#comment-1823 If the craft is so large relative to its payload, could it have enough fuel to hop from its first location to a pole. Call it a twofer.

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By: Dallas Schwartz http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/china-america-and-the-moon-boldness-and-abdication/#comment-1821 Tue, 12 Nov 2013 04:20:38 +0000 http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/?p=590#comment-1821 Sadly, no PATHETICALLY the present administration is derelict in their efforts to build upon prior admin’s work to re-establish the U.S.’s ability to fly too & land on the Moon. Neglecting to take into account the multiple finds that have been confirmed via numerous sources outside the U.S. that the Moon in fact has many unique qualities that make it the perfect platform for humanity to stretch out into the Solar system. Do we (USA) have to go it alone? No. Nor should we. Nor should we cede the ability to develop CIS-Lunar capabilities to anyone. It is a short sighted mindset that is pervasive throughout “leadership” at the WH & NASA towards the Moon that is clearly biased without any merit. Vast resources await all who choose to go; sadly we will sit idly by and wonder how & why we no longer matter.

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By: gbaikie http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/china-america-and-the-moon-boldness-and-abdication/#comment-1820 Sat, 09 Nov 2013 14:01:58 +0000 http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/?p=590#comment-1820 “There has been speculation that China might “claim” the Moon. If they got to a shadowed polar crater first and it did turn out to contain valuable minerals I wonder what would happen.”

Chinese are member of Outer Space Treaty, which states:
“The treaty explicitly forbids any government from claiming a celestial resource such as the Moon or a planet, claiming that they are the common heritage of mankind.[3] Art. II of the Treaty states that “outer space, including the Moon and other celestial bodies, is not subject to national appropriation by claim of sovereignty, by means of use or occupation, or by any other means”.” wiki.

So Chinese would need notify there intention to not longer be member of this international treaty. If they did that could then make such a claim
and not bound any other part of this treaty.

But China does need to make a claim- it doesn’t serve any use to them.
They “own” the Moon by using it. If you are making rocket fuel and selling rocket fuel, you choose not to sell rocket fuel or charge very high price to any party. This may or may not be good way to do business
but you other purposes, one you chose not to enable other parties by denying them your product.
But the US has their ITAR regime. China could mimic ITAR in regard to the Moon or make companies join some kind regime which follows Chinese laws. So like Google agreement with China which include censoring content. Or rules could parties might launch from certain earth launch sites. Or use chinese upper stages. So many way to exert
political control.
Though any such restrictions would wiser if they didn’t have much cost
to these companies. Google censorship for China doesn’t have much cost to Google. So it merely can be you play in your sand box you play by our rules and we not make the rules expensive to follow,
So it’s big benefit to China to be able to make the rules. And considering how expensive and silly American rules can be, it could even be welcomed by all.

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By: Robert Clark http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/china-america-and-the-moon-boldness-and-abdication/#comment-1817 Sat, 09 Nov 2013 02:16:01 +0000 http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/?p=590#comment-1817 There has been speculation that China might “claim” the Moon. If they got to a shadowed polar crater first and it did turn out to contain valuable minerals I wonder what would happen.

Bob Clark

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By: William Mellberg http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/china-america-and-the-moon-boldness-and-abdication/#comment-1815 Fri, 08 Nov 2013 15:43:52 +0000 http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/?p=590#comment-1815 Incidentally, both Soviet Lunokhod rovers used radioisotope heater systems to keep the vehicles’ electronics warm during the lunar nights. But the batteries were recharged using the large solar panel during the day (while the rovers were stopped). Lunokhod-1 and Lunokhod-2 don’t get a lot of attention these days. But they really pointed the way to the future of robotic exploration. Here are some Lunokhod panoramas:

http://www.planetology.ru/panoramas/lunokhod2.php

Be sure to click on the additional pages at the bottom for additional imagery.

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By: Chris Castro http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/china-america-and-the-moon-boldness-and-abdication/#comment-1814 Fri, 08 Nov 2013 12:21:16 +0000 http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/?p=590#comment-1814 Excellent observations!! I have noticed this about the unmanned space-probe enthusiasts, for years—–that they never cease in their quest to send new robotic space-crafts to the planets & planetoids, on basically ‘REPEAT-but-incrementally-better & incrementally-more-extensive’ missions. Just how many times has NASA sent in rover-vehicles to investigate Mars? Consider that after the Pioneer & Voyager crafts did fly-bys of both Jupiter & Saturn, two times each, that further orbiter-craft were later sent to each giant world: the Galileo & the Cassini missions—–with increasingly more ambitious discovery objectives, than what came before. If unmanned space-craft missions yield so high a bounty of scientific findings, per each individual planet-reach, then imagine just how many tales-of-the-unexpected would await a more technologically advanced second round of manned Moon expeditions——both in the preliminary sorties & in the subsequent outpost-phase visits? The current presidential administration is lead by huge, wholesale IGNORANCE, over how exploration & scientific investigation has always been done, throughout the Earth’s long history! And again, our best hopes for a 21st-century round of American crewed Lunar missions, lays with a solid change in presidential leadership, plus some definite, concrete foreign competition in the Lunar arena. I look forward with zeal to the day that Chinese spacemen make the full journey Moonward, & build upon the grand legacy of acheivement, that the Apollo expeditions did——-now, more than four full decades ago!

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