Comments on: A Timely and Excellent Production: Destination Moon http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/a-timely-and-excellent-production/ Fri, 03 Aug 2018 06:04:06 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=4.9.8 By: billgamesh http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/a-timely-and-excellent-production/#comment-6199 Sat, 12 Aug 2017 22:21:02 +0000 http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/?p=1651#comment-6199 China, Europe, and Japan are all going to the Moon with people. Not Mars. They understand only lunar resources can make interplanetary Human Space Flight Beyond Earth and Lunar Orbit (HSF-BELO) possible. We simply cannot go anywhere else until we go back to the Moon first. In my view nuclear energy is required and there is no substitute which means LEO is NOT the place where deep space missions are going to be assembled, tested, and launched: it is going to happen on or in the vicinity of, the Moon. LEO is a dead end. True atomic spaceships capable of voyaging to the gas giants will certainly bypass arid Mars in favor of transporting submersibles to those half a dozen moons with great subsurface oceans. Mars is a dead end.

So as I stated, “When NASA points itself back at the Moon and only the Moon – then, and only then, will some progress be possible.

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By: Paul Spudis http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/a-timely-and-excellent-production/#comment-6198 Sat, 12 Aug 2017 16:49:14 +0000 http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/?p=1651#comment-6198 Won’t the executive branch and congress have something to say about that?

They have and will. The NASA 2010 Authorization directed NASA to include the lunar surface in future activities, a direction that the agency proceeded to ignore. The best thing about the new Space Council is that they can serve as an agency watchdog in the future, correcting attempts to slow roll national policy.

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By: Vladislaw http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/a-timely-and-excellent-production/#comment-6197 Sat, 12 Aug 2017 12:25:45 +0000 http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/?p=1651#comment-6197 “When NASA points itself back at the Moon and only the Moon,”

Won’t the executive branch and congress have something to say about that?

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By: Joe http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/a-timely-and-excellent-production/#comment-6196 Fri, 11 Aug 2017 23:12:52 +0000 http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/?p=1651#comment-6196 Agreed.

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By: billgamesh http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/a-timely-and-excellent-production/#comment-6195 Fri, 11 Aug 2017 23:10:12 +0000 http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/?p=1651#comment-6195 I wonder how much of a payload New Shepard could land on the Moon? If it can throttle down to 20,000 pounds then X6 would be 60 tons of thrust. To soft land the total weight of the vehicle would be more than that. I imagine it would have to have some form of cryo-cooler system to keep the propellants from boiling off on the trip to the Moon. Could it carry a small mobile refinery capable of harvesting ice, splitting water, and refilling the propellant tanks with that payload- and carry a useful cargo of water back into Low Lunar Orbit?

If there is easily refined ice in those cold traps then 6 SLS missions a year could land…six such lander/refineries per year and within a few years a constant flow of water would be going into wet workshops in LLO. That would mean shielding that would end radiation dosing of astronauts and a tether system could provide 1G artificial gravity allowing unlimited stays. Add nuclear propulsion and you have a true spaceship.

Very exciting to imagine it could all happen in the space of a decade or so.

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By: Joe http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/a-timely-and-excellent-production/#comment-6194 Fri, 11 Aug 2017 21:19:29 +0000 http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/?p=1651#comment-6194 At least in the popular culture “these billionaires” means Bezos and Musk.Your comment is on point where Musk is concerned, but Bezos is a different matter.

Bezos has always been an advocate of Lunar ISRU development before venturing further. Additionally, Blue Origin’s Blue Moon Lunar Cargo Lander is based on their Sub-Orbital (from earth) New Shepard vehicle which has been extensively tested in ways that would support a Lunar SSTO cargo Vehicle design.

As a support system for an independent crew transport it deserves serious consideration.

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By: Grand Lunar http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/a-timely-and-excellent-production/#comment-6193 Fri, 11 Aug 2017 20:05:24 +0000 http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/?p=1651#comment-6193 “Not hard to picture similar arguments (however disingenuous) made against human Lunar activities.”

Let’s hope not!

Difficult enough as it is to get people on board the idea of pursuing future human lunar activity.

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By: Michael Wright http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/a-timely-and-excellent-production/#comment-6190 Fri, 11 Aug 2017 18:02:34 +0000 http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/?p=1651#comment-6190 In Spudis’ previous blog Joe adds:
“Additionally, their guru [Musk] has recently: (1) Abandoned the Red Dragon (a Mars lander), (2) De-scoped the ITS (his proposed Mars Vehicle), and (3) Endorsed – wait for it – establishing a Base on the Moon.”

Once these billionaires realize they are pouring money into the Mars drain but not much to show for it, they could re-direct their business objectives. However, lobbying for lunar equipment means need to build and fly hardware now. Unlike artwork, if problems occur physical things get damaged or lost, and someone will have to answer up to some very demanding questions. But if things do work, those responsible will be superstars.

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By: billgamesh http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/a-timely-and-excellent-production/#comment-6189 Fri, 11 Aug 2017 15:26:33 +0000 http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/?p=1651#comment-6189 I really enjoyed the series and especially enjoyed hearing Dr. Spudis talk about his work and vision for the future. Though I disagree with some of the basic assumptions made and make criticisms, I am not trying to be “negative” or counterproductive. On the contrary, that the U.S. retreated from the Moon back into LEO in the 70’s and has come to our present ridiculous circumstance where we are paying hundreds of millions of tax dollars to the Russians for rides into LEO is what I am negative about. The Moon was the prize we never should have took our eyes off of. If we had kept exploring with robot landers and rovers in the 70’s we would have found the ice in a few years and the decision to build a permanent base there instead of the space station to nowhere would have come about. We now have the opportunity to learn from our mistake but instead….

The regulars here are in the “Moon First Lobby” but I doubt any of us are paid lobbyists making 6 figures and commuting the beltway everyday to our office near the capitol. Dr. Spudis often allows those in the “Mars Direct Lobby” to comment (they are actually NewSpace fans but since Mars is central to that ideology I include them). The problem has always been, in my view, simple human greed. Simply stated, the aerospace industry realized after Apollo 1 that Human Space Flight (Beyond Earth Orbit) was going to be hard money while cold war toys were a fortune waiting to be made. They chose the easy money. No amount of public support, short of voting politicians out of office, was going to change that direction. And here we are. NewSpace is promising big but any close look at what they are doing reveals a scam designed to place satellite launch companies in the hands of billionaire hobbyists courtesy of the taxpayer. Very little to do with HSF-BEO.

When NASA points itself back at the Moon and only the Moon, and Musk and Bezos and others stop playing their games and commit to building lunar landers then, and only then, will some progress be possible.

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By: Joe http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/a-timely-and-excellent-production/#comment-6185 Fri, 11 Aug 2017 11:49:55 +0000 http://spudislunarresources.nss.org/blog/?p=1651#comment-6185 “Where did the water come from? Comets? Could there be microbes frozen solid in some of it?”

Interesting idea, but best be careful what is wished for.

Arguments have been made against human Mars exploration on grounds it might “corrupt” indigenous Martian life.

Not hard to picture similar arguments (however disingenuous) made against human Lunar activities.

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